Jokin is some or something.
Joka is a totally another thing.
The challenge with joku and jokin is that in spoken language, we use some forms of jokin instead of joku. The real declination of joku is just silly, or what do you think about jollakulla or joiksikuiksi?
If there is a difference between official Finnish and the spoken language, I'll have an example of them both.The Wiktionary links above have all the cases in singular and plural. I'm just focusing on the most common cases in singular as I don't want to alienate my readers.
The challenge with joku and jokin is that in spoken language, we use some forms of jokin instead of joku. The real declination of joku is just silly, or what do you think about jollakulla or joiksikuiksi?
Actually, I never say 'jokin' when I speak. I always say joku, as if it didn't matter if the objects were alive or not. I'm doing my best to explain this craziness.
Notice that I have edited the post after some of the comments. I edit this every time I come here. :)
Notice that I have edited the post after some of the comments. I edit this every time I come here. :)
If there is a difference between official Finnish and the spoken language, I'll have an example of them both.The Wiktionary links above have all the cases in singular and plural. I'm just focusing on the most common cases in singular as I don't want to alienate my readers.
If you want to read more, I have a separate post about words beginning with jo.
nominative: joku
genitive: jonkun
partitive: jotakuta
inessive: jossakussa
elative: jostakusta
illative: johonkuhun
adessive: jollakulla
ablative: joltakulta
allative: jollekulle
essive: jonakuna
translative: joksikuksi
nominative: jokin
genitive: jonkin
partitive: jotakin / jotain
inessive: jossakin / jossain
elative: jostakin / jostain
illative: johonkin / jonnekin
adessive: jollakin / jollain
ablative: joltakin / joltain
allative: jollekin
essive: jonakin / jonain
translative: joksikin
joku - some, someone
nominative: joku
- Tuolla on joku mies. - There's some guy over there.
genitive: jonkun
partitive: jotakuta
- Ajattelin jotakuta toista. - I was thinking of someone else.
- Spoken language: Mä ajattelin jotain toista.
inessive: jossakussa
- Vika ei ole koskaan sinussa, vaan aina jossakussa muussa! - It's never your fault but always someone else's! (The fault is never in you.)
- Spoken language: Vika ei ole koskaan sussa, vaan aina jossain muussa!
elative: jostakusta
- Mitä teen, jos en tykkää jostakusta? - What will I do if I don't like someone?
- Spoken language: Mitä mä teen, jos mä en tykkää jostain?
illative: johonkuhun
- Yritä tutustua johonkuhun muuhun. - Try to get to know someone else.
- Spoken language: Yritä tutustua johonkin muuhun.
adessive: jollakulla
- Se on jollakulla. - Someone has it.
- Spoken language: Se on jollain.
ablative: joltakulta
- Sain sen joltakulta tutulta. - I got it from someone I know.
- Spoken language: Mä sain sen joltain tutulta.
allative: jollekulle
- Anna se jollekulle muulle. - Give it to someone else.
- Spoken language: Anna se jollekin muulle.
essive: jonakuna
- Pidätkö minua ystävänä vai jonakuna muuna? - Do you consider me a friend or something else?
- Spoken language: Pidätkö sä mua ystävänä vai jonain muuna?
translative: joksikuksi
- Anteeksi, luulin sinua joksikuksi muuksi. - Sorry, I though you were someone else.
- Spoken language: Sori, mä luulin sua jokskuks muuks.
jokin - some, something
nominative: jokin
- Tämä on jokin uusi tuote. - This is some new product.
- Spoken language: Tämä on joku uusi tuote.
genitive: jonkin
- Sinä sait jonkin kirjeen. - You received some letter.
- Spoken language: Sä sait jonkun kirjeen.
partitive: jotakin / jotain
- Tämä on jotain terveellistä. - This is something healthy.
inessive: jossakin / jossain
- Se on jossain laatikossa. - It is in some drawer.
- This can also mean somewhere. You can read this post about nowhere and somwhere.
elative: jostakin / jostain
- Mä löysin sen jostain kaapista. - I found it in some closet.
- This can also mean from somewhere.
illative: johonkin / jonnekin
- Mikko meni johonkin baariin. - Mikko went to some bar.
- This can also mean to somewhere.
adessive: jollakin / jollain
- Mä tulen jollain toisella bussilla. - I'll come by some other bus.
ablative: joltakin / joltain
- Tämä kuulostaa joltain Beatlesien kappaleelta. - This sounds like some song by the Beatles.
allative: jollekin
- Laita se jollekin pöydälle. - Put it (to) on some table.
essive: jonakin / jonain
- Jonain päivänä mä teen sen. - Some day I will do it.
translative: joksikin
- Mä menen pois joksikin aikaa. - I'll go away for some time.
10 comments:
speechless.
This helps a lot! Kiitos oikein paljon. See my own blog! www.finnishchronicles.wordpress.com
I have just found this blog, thanks it's great! I wish you lived in Helsinki so I could have private lessons :)
Oh, that's not a problem: I also teach via Skype! Skype lessons are great as nobody has to leave their home.:)
A nice post on a topic that's indeed usually hard to explain to students in a way that makes sense, but there are a couple of points and additions I'd like to make:
"The challenge with joka and jokin is that in spoken language, we use some forms of jokin instead of joka."
It seems that here you have mistakenly used "joka" instead of "joku". "Jokin" is never substituted for "joka", which, as you say, is a different thing altogether :)
"(No example sentence that would make sense. Sorry.)"
A natural-sounding example sentence that came to my mind would be "Vika ei ole koskaan sinussa, vaan aina jossakussa muussa!" ("It's never your fault but always someone else's!") In spoken language "jossakussa" could be substituted with "jossain", but I think it's more likely that a person speaking Finnish would use the genetive construction instead: "Vika ei koskaan sun vaan aina jonkun muun!"
In general, the substitution of declined forms of "jokin" for analoguous forms of "joku" in spoken Finnish is not quite as straightforward as one might make out of your post (unfortunately, though probably not unexpectedly :)). Some of the examples with forms of "jokin" sound a bit awkward and unidiomatic; in some cases even the declined forms of "joku" could be used in speech, or then a speaker would find a different way of expressing the same thing. For example:
"Sori, mä luulin sua joksikin muuksi." It's possible that a Finnish person could find a way to say this in a way that sounds natural, but I think that in particular case the "something" meaning of "jokin" makes it sound awkward to many people. "Joksikuksi" would certainly not be used in normal speech, but there's also a contracted form of it ("jokskuks") that I think many Finnish-speakers would use here: "Sori, mä luulin sua jokskuks muuks". Alternatively, they might use an expression like "some other person": "Sori, mä luulin sua jokskuks toiseks kaveriks", "Sori, mä luulin sua yheks toiseks tyypiks", etc.
"Mä sanon tämän jonakin, joka tuntee sut hyvin." Again, this sounds a bit too much like "I say this as something that knows you well". Instead of "jonakuna" or "jonakin", I think most people would use an expression like "as a person" in speech: "Mä sanon tän henkilönä/ihmisenä, joka tuntee sut hyvin."
Kiitos korjauksesta ja kommenteista! :)
Kiitos tästäkin! Mun kämppis opiskelee suomea, ja mä autan sitä ja täydennän opettajan oppeja. Oon lukenut aika paljon suomen kielioppia joten monet asiat osaankin jo selittää, mutta luonnollisten esimerkkien keksiminen on monesti vaikeaa kun niille on tarvetta.
Ja mä komppaan Veikkoa tuossa "joksikuksi", ainakin meillä päin (Kaakkois-Hämeessä) sanottaisiin "joksku muuks". "Joksikin muuksi" kuulostaa tosiaan siltä kuin olisi ajatellut ihmisen olevan vaikkapa naulakko :)
"Jossakussa:sta" sen verran, että jos itte ei keksi mitään hyvää esimerkkiä, googlettamalla yleensä aina löytyy ainakin puhekielisiä käyttöjä kaikille sanoille, ja siis ihan oikeasta korpuksesta ;) Sieltä löytyy esimerkiksi tällainen Demi.fi:n keskustelu: "Mitä te kumppanissanne tai jossakussa muussa läheisessänne eniten rakastatte?" sekä Vauva.fi:n "Kyllä vika on ihan jossakussa toisessa." Molemmat minusta oikein järkeviä ja kirjakielisiäkin lauseita :)
Viimeisen lauseen "joksikin päiväksi" minä sanoisin monikossa: "menen joiksikin päiviksi Helsinkiin". Miksi ihmeessä tässä tapauksessa sekä yksikkö että monikko kantaa monikkomerkitystä? Koska aina niin ei ole. Tässä taas googlettamalla saatuja esimerkkejä: "Kutsutaanko teitä muumilaakson joksikin asukkaaksi?"; "Heippahei joksikin aikaa"; "Muutamme sloganin joksikin ihan muuksi". Mielenkiintoista. :)
(Saakohan tästä viestistä mitään selvää...)
Very useful, thank you!
Veikko ja Jarkko, kiitos kommenteista tähän tuskaiseen postaukseen.:) Muokkasin noita esimerkkejä hieman, joten jos joku lukee kaikki esimerkit ja kommentit, saattaa vähän hämmentyä. Ja totta: mitä tahansa vain googlaakin, vauva.fi:stä ja demi.fi:stä löytyy vastaus! :)
Tämä on kuin kulta. Kiitos
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